In this episode of the Growth Elevated Leadership Podcast, host Julian Castelli converses with Tom Lineen, a seasoned leader in the payments industry and founder of West Town Payments. Launched during the COVID-19 pandemic in July 2020, Tom’s company focuses on underserved markets like hemp and CBD. Tom shares his entrepreneurial journey, detailing the challenges of finding a banking partner and the strategic decisions that led to his company’s success. He emphasizes the importance of trust, transparency, and leveraging technology. The episode offers valuable insights into navigating business growth during challenging times.
For more resources on how to be a a better leader in business, please visit us at GrowthElevated.com, and follow us on LinkedIn.
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Timestamps
Introduction to the Podcast (00:00:02)
Julian Castelli introduces the Growth Elevated Leadership Podcast and its purpose.
Julian Castelli’s Background (00:00:27)
Julian shares his experience and previous guests of the podcast.
Introduction of Tom Lineen (00:01:10)
Julian welcomes Tom Lineen, discussing his extensive career in the payments industry.
Tom’s Business Launch (00:02:09)
Tom reveals the launch of West Town Payments in July 2020.
Business Growth Post-Launch (00:02:27)
Tom discusses the growth of his business amidst the pandemic.
Tom’s Entrepreneurial Background (00:03:10)
Tom shares his experience as a serial entrepreneur with previous successful exits.
Thesis for Starting West Town Payments (00:03:33)
Tom explains his motivation for starting a new business during the pandemic.
Partnership with West Town Bank (00:04:38)
Tom describes the importance of partnering with West Town Bank for his business model.
Challenges in Finding a Bank Partner (00:05:20)
Tom discusses the difficulties he faced in securing a bank partnership.
Timeline of Finding a Partner (00:06:31)
Tom shares the timeline of his search for a bank partner, starting in 2018.
Hiring After Securing Partnership (00:07:03)
Tom talks about his first hires after establishing the bank partnership.
Impact of COVID-19 on Business (00:07:34)
Tom explains how COVID-19 positively impacted his business development.
Critical Milestones in Business Development (00:09:23)
Tom recounts a pivotal conference that validated their business model.
Targeting the Hemp and CBD Market (00:10:24)
Tom discusses their focus on the underserved hemp and CBD market.
Regulatory Changes and Market Opportunities (00:11:33)
Tom explains the regulatory changes that opened opportunities in the hemp sector.
Full-Service Banking in a New Market (00:12:37)
Tom highlights their comprehensive banking services for the hemp industry.
Challenges Faced During the Journey (00:14:39)
Tom reflects on the challenges posed by the pandemic and remote work.
Navigating an Acquisition Bid (00:15:47)
Tom shares his experience with an unsolicited acquisition bid from another bank.
Dart Bank Partnership (00:16:51)
Tom discusses finding Dart Bank, which supports the marijuana industry, and its cultural alignment.
Maintaining Team Focus During Acquisition (00:17:57)
Tom shares challenges of keeping his team focused during the acquisition process and the importance of communication.
Transparency and Trust in Leadership (00:19:49)
Tom emphasizes the need for transparency to build trust, especially in a remote work environment.
Embracing Technology (00:21:10)
Tom reflects on the importance of adopting technology sooner to enhance business efficiency.
Recommended Resources (00:23:20)
Tom shares influential books and podcasts that have guided him, including “How to Win Friends and Influence People.”
Closing Remarks (00:24:57)
Julian thanks Tom for sharing his journey and insights, wishing him success for the future.
Speaker 1 00:00:02 Welcome to the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast with Julian Castelli. Each week, we talk with senior tech leaders to explore stories and insights about the challenges involved with growing technology companies. We hope that these stories can help you become a better leader and help you navigate your own growth journey.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 This is Julian Castelli. I’m the host of the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast, where each week I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders in the tech industry. Past guests have included CEOs and CXOs of great companies like Work Front, Healthcare Pathology Watch and Moment, canopy, the San Francisco 40 Niners, and many more. This episode is brought to you by Growth Elevated. We are a community of tech founders, CEOs, and CXOs who are committed to working together to share best practices and learnings in an effort to help all of us become better leaders. We do that through educational programs like this podcast and our annual Tech summit in beautiful Park City, Utah. And if you’re a skier and you enjoy working with other tech leaders, please check us out at Growth elevator.com.
Speaker 2 00:01:10 Today, I am excited to welcome Tom Lineen to the program. Tom has had a exciting career that spanned 25 years in the payments industry, payments, banking and Fintech. Tom has been an innovator in this space and he’s an electronic payments entrepreneur. He’s leveraged his payment product expertise, business acumen, and his vast network of partners and strategic alliances to create a new company over the last four years called West Town Payments. And today, we’re going to talk to Tom about his leadership journey. Tom, welcome to the program.
Speaker 3 00:01:41 Good morning, Gillian. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 It’s great to have you on. And I’m looking forward to learning more about about payments. Tell me about you. You’ve been in payments for a long time. Let’s just really simply explain, you know, the payments business. This is when people charge credit cards, right? You help and enable merchants and people who sell things to to use digital payments. That’s that’s the the basic of your of your, your business and your expertise.
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Right.
Speaker 3 00:02:08 Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:02:09 Yep. Awesome. And so you’ve been doing this for 20 plus years, but now you’ve launched a new business called West West Town Payments. When did you launch that?
Speaker 3 00:02:17 Launched it in July of 2020.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Awesome. And is that a complete startup?
Speaker 3 00:02:21 It’s a complete startup. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:02:23 Okay. And so that was, 4 or 5 years ago. And where are you today?
Speaker 3 00:02:27 Well, you know, we, started in July 2020, which, of course, dead center in the, middle of the pandemic. And, we’ve now grown that business, to, approximately 12 million annual volume and, have a little over a dozen, team members and, you know, have have really seen, elevated growth in the last year, year and a half since we’ve, settled into our new, bank environment.
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Congratulations. That’s fantastic. So, what made you want to start your own thing? Was this your first, entrepreneurship? You started a new company from scratch, and you were the leader.
Speaker 3 00:03:10 No. this is actually my fourth company. Was, fortunate enough to exit out of the previous three. And each time we start a new, we have a little bit of a different business model focus. Certainly, the environment changes every time. But we’ve been fortunate to find a market, product market fit and a path to exit.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 And what what was your thesis for this one? To start a new business in 2020?
Speaker 3 00:03:33 Sure. So, you know, in 25 years in this case at that point is 20 years of experience. It experienced a tremendous amount of frustration with the layers and layers of, people and or organizations that are involved in the payment industry. It is is very much like an onion. And so what I thought and, and part of my thesis was that if I can get to the highest level, which is the bank, Even above. Visa. Mastercard. The banks control the market. Then I can actually go after some of these markets and opportunities that I’ve, I’ve seen or attempted to do previously as a, called third party, assuming that we could create that kind of alignment where they would actually be part of the company, they’d either invest in it, it’s an on the board equity partner, then we would be able to achieve on these goals that previously were behind some kind of curtain or wall that we couldn’t access.
Speaker 2 00:04:32 Right. Got it. And was West Town Bank your your partner that you that you use to kind of test that thesis.
Speaker 3 00:04:38 Absolutely. West town Bank was I mean, I don’t want to say the number of banks that I approached, before they.
Speaker 2 00:04:44 Well, how hard was that? I mean, that’s that’s the innovation, right? You wanted to have a bank be part of it. So it wasn’t just as easy as the first person you asked to send. Sure. I’ll try it.
Speaker 3 00:04:53 Yeah, I wish that was the case. If it was, then everyone would be doing it. No. You know, you obviously have personalities, you have history. You also have you know, I don’t want to do this as because I don’t want to lose my job, but it sounds really good. All those things factor in with West Town Bank. They were already in a market that we knew we could serve as if we had previously, and we also knew that it was a growing market that really didn’t have service providers that understood its challenges.
Speaker 3 00:05:20 And so we met them. I met the CEO. Her name is Melissa marcel. She is an amazing person and an even better business person. And actually joining our first meeting was our first pitch meeting was March 7020, which of course, you know, the world shut down, March 14th.
Speaker 2 00:05:38 So you’re starting you’re starting a new venture and Covid kind of runs. It runs right into like, a truck.
Speaker 3 00:05:43 Exactly. And I thought this would be the shortest pitch meeting ever. In reality, their interest was already galvanized because what they saw in the market. And as we talked about, you know, what I was hoping to achieve and then what they were hoping to achieve was so perfectly aligned they said, let’s do it. and I was as shocked as anybody that we got the. Yes. And then it was, you know, off to the races.
Speaker 2 00:06:05 But yes. Okay. So, so big first big achievement. You know, you get get the bank partner, which is amazing. After how many people you think you talk to to get that done.
Speaker 3 00:06:15 like really get in front of the board of directors to that level six banks. Okay. Another dozen that you do the dance and then you realize, okay, this is going nowhere.
Speaker 2 00:06:25 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:06:25 Yeah. So it was, you know, it was how.
Speaker 2 00:06:27 Long does it take you? How long did that process take you to find that partner?
Speaker 3 00:06:31 A couple of years. I would say we started in like 18. I started in 18, did some consulting work, actually got inside of a couple banks, realized, you know, that this is a is really a challenge. And then, you know, then then started spreading out from there, looking for other community banks that weren’t yet in payments but wanted to be, you know, like the revenue, like the fee income. and, you know, maybe didn’t have the expertise in-house, and that’s what we bring to them.
Speaker 2 00:06:56 Yeah. And you do that solo solopreneur at that point. And then when did when did you start hiring out people? After you.
Speaker 2 00:07:02 You got the partnership with the bank?
Speaker 3 00:07:03 Yeah, yeah. So we our first hire I want to say was in, you know, the summer just after we launched. And that was really like a right hand person. And then we started hiring some, we’ll call it high level staff that understood the payments at a, you know, probably the level even even I, I don’t fully understand which is, which is the most valuable part of any business is the people you can attract.
Speaker 2 00:07:27 Right? So you you get the bank, you got your first couple of employees, and then Covid hits. Talk to me about that. How did that impact your business?
Speaker 3 00:07:34 Actually just the opposite. So Covid hit first and we’re building this thing in in quarantine.
Speaker 2 00:07:40 and you started this during Covid. Wow.
Speaker 3 00:07:42 During Covid, like during the very beginning of Covid, where the world was, as you know, the uncertainty was was at Paramount. But the bank, I think, had enough confidence that, okay, you know, there will be a future, There will be something after this.
Speaker 3 00:07:55 It’s not Armageddon. And we have a moment to build while everyone is hunkered down. And I’ll tell you this. The interesting thing is. So it took us four months to get, the, the, Illinois state, regulators to basically sign off on the opportunity because it’s a new business line for bank and any new business line of bank opens. They have to get it’s not approval, by the way. They have to basically get a letter that says we don’t deny your request, which is always fun. So that’s the environment. So that happened in July. And from July to November we built the entire infrastructure. We got all the licenses from the card brands. I got the payment, rails set up. So for months, and just to give you an idea that normally takes anywhere from 12 to 24 months. So we hustled through I think part of it was our knowledge, experience and doing it. And so we knew how to do it and do it quickly. The other part was everyone was sitting at home.
Speaker 3 00:08:50 No one was traveling.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 So you’re launching all this? Yeah. And it wasn’t normal like it is now, right. So that must have.
Speaker 3 00:08:56 I wouldn’t be able to do this in four months. It would take a solid year, if not longer and probably much, much longer, frankly.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Got it. Okay, so you built this business while we’re all sitting at home binge watching, that that Tiger show or whatever it was. It was.
Speaker 4 00:09:12 Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 00:09:14 And and you’re building a business. Okay. So. So when did you know that you kind of you had something and it was it was going to work. What was what was what were critical first milestones.
Speaker 3 00:09:23 You know, we actually I’ll tell you, we went to a conference in April of 2021. So this is literally when the world while we’re at the conference, the US lifted the face mask ban. Right. So this is how early this was. So we go to this conference. We’re sitting there and people walked up.
Speaker 3 00:09:41 And the first conversation, the first question was, well, you’re a sales office, ISO independent sales organization. We said, no, we’re part of the bank. And they stop and go, wait, what? And you’re here and you’re. Then the conversation started rolling. We went, okay, this is exactly what we thought would happen at some level, but not in such a visceral like, you’re the bank talking to me right now. You’re here at this conference, you’re meeting us where we are. And that’s when we looked at each other and said, okay, this, this is interesting. We got something here.
Speaker 2 00:10:09 Because that was that that was unique. Right.
Speaker 3 00:10:11 And typically you’re talking to some company, you know, with a nondescript name that is, you know, is representing some bank as a, as a contract.
Speaker 2 00:10:23 Many, many.
Speaker 3 00:10:24 Exactly. You know, but they’re not the decision maker. They’re not the ones who say, yeah, I can do this. And one of the markets we started in that was highly regulated and incredibly misunderstood was the hemp and CBD market.
Speaker 3 00:10:36 And so, mind you, this is now 2020. Well, 2020 we started with 2021 was this particular conference. And in 2018 the Farm Act was passed which legalized, hemp and CBD while keeping marijuana illegal, right?
Speaker 2 00:10:52 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:10:52 There’s a definition of what the difference is. And there’s a path and there’s a framework. And so we looked at that and said, hey, this is something that we can actually build an entire program around, get the bank behind. We can build compliance. There are platforms and services that can help us, but we can actually address this market.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 So this is a new market. It’s it’s it’s underserved historically. Right. Because this is you know, everyone was hearing about you know, you had the cash payments and the in the marijuana space and stuff like that. And so this, this this was an opportunity you saw that you thought you could tackle because of your special structure, being having the bank as a partner. And so you guys went after that as a new opportunity?
Speaker 3 00:11:33 Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 00:11:34 And I actually make one point of clarity historically before actually, technically before 2014, but definitely before 2018, everyone looked at, cannabis, which is the medical term, and marijuana and hemp are these two different cousins as all the same, right. And legally as well as conceptually. So legally that changed in 2018. And so now you can separate the two. And we could actually, you know, bank provide payments and lend to this, you know, one category which is hemp and CBD. And on the marijuana side we could actually bank it, but you can’t provide any, card processing.
Speaker 2 00:12:14 And is that still the case today?
Speaker 3 00:12:15 It is still the case today.
Speaker 2 00:12:16 Okay. So but you found the area that we could.
Speaker 3 00:12:18 Yeah, absolutely. It’s a it’s a narrow path, but it’s one that is well defined. And so we were able to, you know, get the bank behind it. The board state of Illinois I was the regulator. And everyone said, okay, you know, but you know, it’s here it is.
Speaker 3 00:12:31 Go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:12:32 Good luck. And were you one of the first banks that was able to provide merchant services for that category?
Speaker 3 00:12:37 Yeah, there’s been a couple of banks that have been in and out of that space. And it’s always interesting, Julianne, when anybody gets into a business and gets it with one foot and you can see it, you know it, and then they get out just as easily and you go, okay, well, they set it up so they could get in, make quick cash and leave. We were set up to the level where we actually trademarked certain, hemp banks here. Hemp pays here. We have all these things where the hemp bank, we went in and say, okay, we’re all in. We don’t do anything, you know, half assed. And the market looked at us at first and said, okay, we’ve seen banks do this. Now, mind you, now we’re five years into this. So we we’ve stayed the course. and so, yes, I’d say we were one of the first banks that actually leaned into this with such an intent that it was obvious that we’re not going to easily be able to get out of this.
Speaker 3 00:13:26 And we were offering loans. We were, offering full banking services. So.
Speaker 2 00:13:30 Okay, so you got a full you got a full service offering, full service category. So are you one of the leaders in that category now?
Speaker 3 00:13:36 I’d say so. I’d say awesome.
Speaker 2 00:13:38 Awesome. So you found an underserved market changing regulation. And that was what was one of your keys to your success, would you say?
Speaker 3 00:13:46 Absolutely. You know, it’s it’s like anything, you know, one of the, books that I’m a big fan of is Blue Ocean Strategy. And so one of the things they talk about is, you know, trying to not compete where others are and certainly not incumbents and tight markets, but find, you know, niches or, you know, areas of that, of that market where there isn’t competition and it’s either because of regulatory decided, because of some other, barrier to entry. In this case, it was regulatory, but then it was also banking and the banks weren’t supporting it.
Speaker 3 00:14:17 So I had two two of the tenants covered, and now it’s just about getting out into the market and executing, which that part I felt like we had and we have covered from our experience of in my 20 years previous.
Speaker 2 00:14:29 Well that’s awesome. Well, great. So that’s a great story. And you went to an underserved market and really, really, innovated there, which is awesome. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced along the journey?
Speaker 3 00:14:39 Well, the pandemic was certainly one.
Speaker 2 00:14:42 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:43 The team is still remote, but it was remote. Then we had the plan of putting everyone in Raleigh, which is where the bancorp of this particular bank is. And the conversation I had with the CEO is, well, okay, we can move everyone to Raleigh, but they’re just going to sit in their apartment anyway. You’re never going to see them.
Speaker 2 00:14:58 Yeah, that was that was black and white. You just you’re not going in the office at that point now. It’s now it’s a choice.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 And so back then it was.
Speaker 3 00:15:04 Yeah. So the other part was the talent. Right. And so if we can hire the talent where they are and tell them they don’t have to move and get really high quality people and not disrupt their lives and actually not have to have them have a conversation with their other half to say, hey, we’re going to move, you know, from wherever we are to Raleigh, North Carolina, which isn’t a horrible place, certainly. But, you know, it is a transition.
Speaker 2 00:15:27 Move is a is a barrier, right?
Speaker 3 00:15:29 Absolutely. And so to continue on that. So the first one was the pandemic. I think we were able to navigate that. And then in 2022, the bankruptcy did unsolicited bid to be acquired by another bank, that I actually was one of the banks that I happen to approach with this idea back in 2009.
Speaker 2 00:15:46 At the beginning. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:15:47 Yeah. So And then they didn’t approach through me. They just found us through an investment bankers.
Speaker 3 00:15:51 Incredibly. I would say serendipitous, but it wasn’t positive for me, so I won’t say that. Use that word. And so I said, you know, guys, these are not these are not people that, understand, you know, our business would support it. And they said, no, no, no, it would be great. We’ll just, you know, we’ll have the acquisition and then we’ll figure it out.
Speaker 2 00:16:07 We’ll we’ll figure it out afterwards. That puts you at risk because like, listen, you know.
Speaker 3 00:16:10 How.
Speaker 2 00:16:10 This world works. That’s a potentially a death threat for your business, right? Because you don’t know if that partner.
Speaker 3 00:16:16 Regulatory.
Speaker 2 00:16:17 Is going to want to do it.
Speaker 3 00:16:18 Exactly. If the regulatory environment changes or your or your partner changes, which is in this case of what’s going to then you, you know, everything, gets put back to zero and you have to kind of figure it out again. And so we realized that and luckily I was able to convince the bank, to say, hey, look, you know, your equity is at jeopardy, your investments at jeopardy! Can we pull that out and maybe find another bank partner that is willing to, you know, buy you out, do whatever, and and is still going to continue, to support us because they see the opportunity.
Speaker 3 00:16:51 And so we went through a process at about 13 banks bid on us some some household names that everyone would know. I, you know, we had kissed a couple frogs to that process and then we ended up finding dart Bank. And dart Bank is a 100 year old. Michigan state chartered bank. And they were one of the first banks in Michigan to, openly bank and support the marijuana industry. And so we felt, okay, if you’re going to support the marijuana industry, then the CBD industry is a lower bar, both compliance and certainly regulatory. So, and honestly, the thing that really impressed me the most, Jillian. And I know this is such a trite thing to hear, but as I heard the CEO telling me about the, the, the culture and how they manage the bank and how they look at themselves as entrepreneurs, you know, living in a community bank, I said, okay, those are our people.
Speaker 2 00:17:41 And that resonated with you as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 00:17:44 Absolutely. Because if they don’t have that culture and they and they aren’t strong and following through on promises they make to their team and or the community they serve, then I’m at risk.
Speaker 3 00:17:57 There’s no doubt. Right? We’ll be we’ll be disintermediated because we’re not part of that community. They’re coming in, you know, as an acquisition. So but we close that in June of 2023. And in that process, I’ll tell you, that was the biggest challenge. Doing it was keeping the team focused and continuing to execute, because as you’re going through an acquisition you can’t have, you can’t lose your key people and you certainly can’t lose key customers and partners or else, you know, then the question becomes, you know, what am I buying?
Speaker 2 00:18:23 Sure.
Speaker 3 00:18:23 And that’s.
Speaker 2 00:18:24 Right. So you got to keep your team together. There’s uncertainty. You lost your key partner. How did you do that? And you’re and you’re not in the same office. So you know there that that creates even more challenge with creating trust and culture. Right.
Speaker 3 00:18:36 And I’ll tell you what’s even more interesting. Is there some of the team members on the on our team is small team that I’ve never met in person.
Speaker 3 00:18:42 I’ve only talked to them through video calls because again, during that time folks didn’t get together. And so what we did was, well, what I decided to do was be incredibly transparent and communicate regularly. So we had a weekly meeting where all we did was update on where we are. And so as I mentioned, we gave some frogs, we had some lice that fell out for various reasons. you know, one of which, just to be really transparent here was because my compensation package, they started trading it through the process to the point where I realized, okay, we’re not going to we’re not going to do well if this is how you’re handling.
Speaker 2 00:19:16 This, starting at the beginning. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:18 What what’s next? So we ended up, you know, blowing that up unfortunately, you know, really close to the closing deadline. And that was a challenge because I had a, you know really I had to tell them, hey, look, I, I, I killed the deal because, you know, they, they weren’t treating me fairly and, and, you know, that’s a moment where you don’t know how they’re going to react.
Speaker 3 00:19:37 But. Right. Because we were so consistent in our in our communication, they agreed. And they said, you know what? That’s not good.
Speaker 2 00:19:42 We don’t want your employees. So you’re sharing something as personal as your as that with your employees and being very transparent.
Speaker 3 00:19:49 Yeah. And that’s you know, it’s a risk. But I also thought, okay, listen, if this is going to work, we have to have trust. And if you don’t have trust, especially in a remote environment, you really have nothing. And I and I needed them because they, you know, they really they were the business, you know. Yes I lead it, but they’re the business. They drive it. They talk to the customers every day. And so that was the other thing. So so everyone came over with us and all our merchants moved over with us. Our partners moved over with us. And you can ask them today, they don’t even know when we switched because they didn’t feel that seamless.
Speaker 3 00:20:22 Yeah. You know, and it was only that seamless because the team was so dedicated to this. And that was the biggest thing I learned is that, okay, the most uncomfortable things are if they’re if they’re the right thing, it’s the thing you have to do. And by doing that, we’ve created a tremendous culture inside our group. And then once we came over to the bank, we realize they had a very similar culture. And so it became, an incredibly easy transition. Really easy.
Speaker 2 00:20:50 Awesome, awesome. Congratulations. And bringing your team through that transition and getting through. So that’s awesome. That’s some key challenges. So now now you’re on the other side of it. I’m sure you’ve got some blue horizon in front of you or some some excitement. Looking back over the four year journey, what would you do differently? Any any lessons for for others who are maybe in year 1 or 2?
Speaker 3 00:21:10 Yeah, I would say, gosh, the biggest thing I probably would do differently today if I was starting right now is I would embrace technology earlier and leverage it into the business sooner, even though, you know, and again, at that time, technology is very expensive, right? So you had to build everything from scratch.
Speaker 2 00:21:29 Yeah, it’s gotten cheaper and less over those four years.
Speaker 3 00:21:32 Absolutely. You know, I is definitely a game changer. it would would have been for us if it was available at the level it is today.
Speaker 2 00:21:39 Are you bringing it in now?
Speaker 3 00:21:41 We’re attempting to. So the interesting thing is, now that we’re part of a community bank. I needs data. And so the data you feed into it, it uses then, of course, depending on how you, you know, the how it’s structured, you you may be making some of that data public or being used in other models, which of course becomes a real challenge. It’s again, you know, personal information, especially coming from a community bank, is definitely.
Speaker 2 00:22:07 Not very careful. So you gotta be careful for so, you.
Speaker 3 00:22:10 Know, we’re.
Speaker 2 00:22:11 Navigating while.
Speaker 3 00:22:12 Navigating those challenges.
Speaker 2 00:22:13 Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:22:14 But we will. We’re absolutely, going to leverage it because there are a lot of repetitive tasks, tasks in payments and banking that could easily be automated and, and leverage AI to be more effective.
Speaker 3 00:22:26 And that’s, you know, ultimately, any small business which I still consider us a small business, even though we’re now part of a bank, has to look at how you can become more efficient, more effective. And technology is definitely the answer for us. So I would have I would leverage that earlier and that would allow us to grow faster, maybe had a a little bit better of a story to tell as we went to market because, you know, we’re only two years in. And so we didn’t have the, you know, the growth stats and the, you know, the you couldn’t draw the beautiful curves where everything goes up to the right just yet. And so, you know, there was a leap of faith by the bank to see us as a viable acquisition that has the ability to be self-sustaining, which I you know, we are now.
Speaker 2 00:23:10 Well, congratulations on that journey. You know, as you think back on that in your career and you, reflect on your lessons, you mentioned Blue Ocean strategy as a, as a, as a really good reference.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 You know what? What else do you, do you have other books or podcasts or things you listen to that, that you’d recommend to our audience?
Speaker 3 00:23:26 sure. Absolutely. You know, and this is, not a book I grew up with, but it’s an oldie and a goodie. how to Win Friends and Influence People is a, you know, really a, you know, great lesson and just how to how to meet people where they are and and and and just, you know, not not in a fake manner, but in really like engaging manner how to how to connect with folks. I love the how I built this podcast. It certainly helped me through, you know, our trials and tribulations in the first couple of years. And I love about it, is that, you know, you hear these stories of these household brands and you think, well, it was so easy for them to start. And then you hear these stories of how they, their near-death experiences, all this chaos, and you sit there and say, okay, you know what? They did it.
Speaker 3 00:24:08 We can do it. Let’s, you know, we can show some grit, we can be persistent and we’ll get there. And so that was that that was helpful. and there’s also just some fun stories. And then, you know, the AI challenge. And so we’ve been listening, a mutual friend of ours has introduced me to a handful of really great AI related podcasts that break it down to the average person, which I think I am. I’m certainly no data scientist, but I know that there are, you know, incremental gains to be had if we can leverage it Properly, and we just have to figure out what that is.
Speaker 2 00:24:42 Yeah. Of course. I mean, we’re all studying right now trying to figure out how we can leverage it. What’s the name of that podcast that the artificial intelligence show?
Speaker 3 00:24:48 Well, you know what? I’ll find it. I’m I’m blanking on it right now. Sorry.
Speaker 2 00:24:53 Awesome. Well, Tom, thanks so much for spending some time with us this morning and sharing your story.
Speaker 2 00:24:57 Congratulations. And, we wish you the best in the future.
Speaker 3 00:24:59 Well, we really appreciate you having us or having me, and being able to tell the West Town payment story as well as, you know, my personal story.
Speaker 2 00:25:06 That’s awesome. Tom. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 00:25:08 Thanks, Julian. Take care.
Speaker 1 00:25:13 Thank you for listening to the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, would you please follow us and subscribe on your favorite podcast player and we’d be grateful if you recommend it to a friend. If you’d like more resources on how to become a better leader in business, we invite you to visit us at Growth elevated.com. We’ll be back next week with more insight from another great tech leader. Thank you.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 This is Julian Castelli. I’m the host of the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast, where each week I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders in the tech industry. Past guests have included CEOs and CXOs of great companies like Work Front, Healthcare Pathology Watch and Moment, canopy, the San Francisco 40 Niners, and many more. This episode is brought to you by Growth Elevated. We are a community of tech founders, CEOs, and CXOs who are committed to working together to share best practices and learnings in an effort to help all of us become better leaders. We do that through educational programs like this podcast and our annual Tech summit in beautiful Park City, Utah. And if you’re a skier and you enjoy working with other tech leaders, please check us out at Growth elevator.com.
Speaker 2 00:01:10 Today, I am excited to welcome Tom Lineen to the program. Tom has had a exciting career that spanned 25 years in the payments industry, payments, banking and Fintech. Tom has been an innovator in this space and he’s an electronic payments entrepreneur. He’s leveraged his payment product expertise, business acumen, and his vast network of partners and strategic alliances to create a new company over the last four years called West Town Payments. And today, we’re going to talk to Tom about his leadership journey. Tom, welcome to the program.
Speaker 3 00:01:41 Good morning, Gillian. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 00:01:43 It’s great to have you on. And I’m looking forward to learning more about about payments. Tell me about you. You’ve been in payments for a long time. Let’s just really simply explain, you know, the payments business. This is when people charge credit cards, right? You help and enable merchants and people who sell things to to use digital payments. That’s that’s the the basic of your of your, your business and your expertise.
Speaker 2 00:02:08 Right.
Speaker 3 00:02:08 Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:02:09 Yep. Awesome. And so you’ve been doing this for 20 plus years, but now you’ve launched a new business called West West Town Payments. When did you launch that?
Speaker 3 00:02:17 Launched it in July of 2020.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Awesome. And is that a complete startup?
Speaker 3 00:02:21 It’s a complete startup. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 00:02:23 Okay. And so that was, 4 or 5 years ago. And where are you today?
Speaker 3 00:02:27 Well, you know, we, started in July 2020, which, of course, dead center in the, middle of the pandemic. And, we’ve now grown that business, to, approximately 12 million annual volume and, have a little over a dozen, team members and, you know, have have really seen, elevated growth in the last year, year and a half since we’ve, settled into our new, bank environment.
Speaker 2 00:02:59 Congratulations. That’s fantastic. So, what made you want to start your own thing? Was this your first, entrepreneurship? You started a new company from scratch, and you were the leader.
Speaker 3 00:03:10 No. this is actually my fourth company. Was, fortunate enough to exit out of the previous three. And each time we start a new, we have a little bit of a different business model focus. Certainly, the environment changes every time. But we’ve been fortunate to find a market, product market fit and a path to exit.
Speaker 2 00:03:29 And what what was your thesis for this one? To start a new business in 2020?
Speaker 3 00:03:33 Sure. So, you know, in 25 years in this case at that point is 20 years of experience. It experienced a tremendous amount of frustration with the layers and layers of, people and or organizations that are involved in the payment industry. It is is very much like an onion. And so what I thought and, and part of my thesis was that if I can get to the highest level, which is the bank, Even above. Visa. Mastercard. The banks control the market. Then I can actually go after some of these markets and opportunities that I’ve, I’ve seen or attempted to do previously as a, called third party, assuming that we could create that kind of alignment where they would actually be part of the company, they’d either invest in it, it’s an on the board equity partner, then we would be able to achieve on these goals that previously were behind some kind of curtain or wall that we couldn’t access.
Speaker 2 00:04:32 Right. Got it. And was West Town Bank your your partner that you that you use to kind of test that thesis.
Speaker 3 00:04:38 Absolutely. West town Bank was I mean, I don’t want to say the number of banks that I approached, before they.
Speaker 2 00:04:44 Well, how hard was that? I mean, that’s that’s the innovation, right? You wanted to have a bank be part of it. So it wasn’t just as easy as the first person you asked to send. Sure. I’ll try it.
Speaker 3 00:04:53 Yeah, I wish that was the case. If it was, then everyone would be doing it. No. You know, you obviously have personalities, you have history. You also have you know, I don’t want to do this as because I don’t want to lose my job, but it sounds really good. All those things factor in with West Town Bank. They were already in a market that we knew we could serve as if we had previously, and we also knew that it was a growing market that really didn’t have service providers that understood its challenges.
Speaker 3 00:05:20 And so we met them. I met the CEO. Her name is Melissa marcel. She is an amazing person and an even better business person. And actually joining our first meeting was our first pitch meeting was March 7020, which of course, you know, the world shut down, March 14th.
Speaker 2 00:05:38 So you’re starting you’re starting a new venture and Covid kind of runs. It runs right into like, a truck.
Speaker 3 00:05:43 Exactly. And I thought this would be the shortest pitch meeting ever. In reality, their interest was already galvanized because what they saw in the market. And as we talked about, you know, what I was hoping to achieve and then what they were hoping to achieve was so perfectly aligned they said, let’s do it. and I was as shocked as anybody that we got the. Yes. And then it was, you know, off to the races.
Speaker 2 00:06:05 But yes. Okay. So, so big first big achievement. You know, you get get the bank partner, which is amazing. After how many people you think you talk to to get that done.
Speaker 3 00:06:15 like really get in front of the board of directors to that level six banks. Okay. Another dozen that you do the dance and then you realize, okay, this is going nowhere.
Speaker 2 00:06:25 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:06:25 Yeah. So it was, you know, it was how.
Speaker 2 00:06:27 Long does it take you? How long did that process take you to find that partner?
Speaker 3 00:06:31 A couple of years. I would say we started in like 18. I started in 18, did some consulting work, actually got inside of a couple banks, realized, you know, that this is a is really a challenge. And then, you know, then then started spreading out from there, looking for other community banks that weren’t yet in payments but wanted to be, you know, like the revenue, like the fee income. and, you know, maybe didn’t have the expertise in-house, and that’s what we bring to them.
Speaker 2 00:06:56 Yeah. And you do that solo solopreneur at that point. And then when did when did you start hiring out people? After you.
Speaker 2 00:07:02 You got the partnership with the bank?
Speaker 3 00:07:03 Yeah, yeah. So we our first hire I want to say was in, you know, the summer just after we launched. And that was really like a right hand person. And then we started hiring some, we’ll call it high level staff that understood the payments at a, you know, probably the level even even I, I don’t fully understand which is, which is the most valuable part of any business is the people you can attract.
Speaker 2 00:07:27 Right? So you you get the bank, you got your first couple of employees, and then Covid hits. Talk to me about that. How did that impact your business?
Speaker 3 00:07:34 Actually just the opposite. So Covid hit first and we’re building this thing in in quarantine.
Speaker 2 00:07:40 and you started this during Covid. Wow.
Speaker 3 00:07:42 During Covid, like during the very beginning of Covid, where the world was, as you know, the uncertainty was was at Paramount. But the bank, I think, had enough confidence that, okay, you know, there will be a future, There will be something after this.
Speaker 3 00:07:55 It’s not Armageddon. And we have a moment to build while everyone is hunkered down. And I’ll tell you this. The interesting thing is. So it took us four months to get, the, the, Illinois state, regulators to basically sign off on the opportunity because it’s a new business line for bank and any new business line of bank opens. They have to get it’s not approval, by the way. They have to basically get a letter that says we don’t deny your request, which is always fun. So that’s the environment. So that happened in July. And from July to November we built the entire infrastructure. We got all the licenses from the card brands. I got the payment, rails set up. So for months, and just to give you an idea that normally takes anywhere from 12 to 24 months. So we hustled through I think part of it was our knowledge, experience and doing it. And so we knew how to do it and do it quickly. The other part was everyone was sitting at home.
Speaker 3 00:08:50 No one was traveling.
Speaker 2 00:08:51 So you’re launching all this? Yeah. And it wasn’t normal like it is now, right. So that must have.
Speaker 3 00:08:56 I wouldn’t be able to do this in four months. It would take a solid year, if not longer and probably much, much longer, frankly.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 Got it. Okay, so you built this business while we’re all sitting at home binge watching, that that Tiger show or whatever it was. It was.
Speaker 4 00:09:12 Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 00:09:14 And and you’re building a business. Okay. So. So when did you know that you kind of you had something and it was it was going to work. What was what was what were critical first milestones.
Speaker 3 00:09:23 You know, we actually I’ll tell you, we went to a conference in April of 2021. So this is literally when the world while we’re at the conference, the US lifted the face mask ban. Right. So this is how early this was. So we go to this conference. We’re sitting there and people walked up.
Speaker 3 00:09:41 And the first conversation, the first question was, well, you’re a sales office, ISO independent sales organization. We said, no, we’re part of the bank. And they stop and go, wait, what? And you’re here and you’re. Then the conversation started rolling. We went, okay, this is exactly what we thought would happen at some level, but not in such a visceral like, you’re the bank talking to me right now. You’re here at this conference, you’re meeting us where we are. And that’s when we looked at each other and said, okay, this, this is interesting. We got something here.
Speaker 2 00:10:09 Because that was that that was unique. Right.
Speaker 3 00:10:11 And typically you’re talking to some company, you know, with a nondescript name that is, you know, is representing some bank as a, as a contract.
Speaker 2 00:10:23 Many, many.
Speaker 3 00:10:24 Exactly. You know, but they’re not the decision maker. They’re not the ones who say, yeah, I can do this. And one of the markets we started in that was highly regulated and incredibly misunderstood was the hemp and CBD market.
Speaker 3 00:10:36 And so, mind you, this is now 2020. Well, 2020 we started with 2021 was this particular conference. And in 2018 the Farm Act was passed which legalized, hemp and CBD while keeping marijuana illegal, right?
Speaker 2 00:10:52 Okay.
Speaker 3 00:10:52 There’s a definition of what the difference is. And there’s a path and there’s a framework. And so we looked at that and said, hey, this is something that we can actually build an entire program around, get the bank behind. We can build compliance. There are platforms and services that can help us, but we can actually address this market.
Speaker 2 00:11:10 So this is a new market. It’s it’s it’s underserved historically. Right. Because this is you know, everyone was hearing about you know, you had the cash payments and the in the marijuana space and stuff like that. And so this, this this was an opportunity you saw that you thought you could tackle because of your special structure, being having the bank as a partner. And so you guys went after that as a new opportunity?
Speaker 3 00:11:33 Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 00:11:34 And I actually make one point of clarity historically before actually, technically before 2014, but definitely before 2018, everyone looked at, cannabis, which is the medical term, and marijuana and hemp are these two different cousins as all the same, right. And legally as well as conceptually. So legally that changed in 2018. And so now you can separate the two. And we could actually, you know, bank provide payments and lend to this, you know, one category which is hemp and CBD. And on the marijuana side we could actually bank it, but you can’t provide any, card processing.
Speaker 2 00:12:14 And is that still the case today?
Speaker 3 00:12:15 It is still the case today.
Speaker 2 00:12:16 Okay. So but you found the area that we could.
Speaker 3 00:12:18 Yeah, absolutely. It’s a it’s a narrow path, but it’s one that is well defined. And so we were able to, you know, get the bank behind it. The board state of Illinois I was the regulator. And everyone said, okay, you know, but you know, it’s here it is.
Speaker 3 00:12:31 Go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:12:32 Good luck. And were you one of the first banks that was able to provide merchant services for that category?
Speaker 3 00:12:37 Yeah, there’s been a couple of banks that have been in and out of that space. And it’s always interesting, Julianne, when anybody gets into a business and gets it with one foot and you can see it, you know it, and then they get out just as easily and you go, okay, well, they set it up so they could get in, make quick cash and leave. We were set up to the level where we actually trademarked certain, hemp banks here. Hemp pays here. We have all these things where the hemp bank, we went in and say, okay, we’re all in. We don’t do anything, you know, half assed. And the market looked at us at first and said, okay, we’ve seen banks do this. Now, mind you, now we’re five years into this. So we we’ve stayed the course. and so, yes, I’d say we were one of the first banks that actually leaned into this with such an intent that it was obvious that we’re not going to easily be able to get out of this.
Speaker 3 00:13:26 And we were offering loans. We were, offering full banking services. So.
Speaker 2 00:13:30 Okay, so you got a full you got a full service offering, full service category. So are you one of the leaders in that category now?
Speaker 3 00:13:36 I’d say so. I’d say awesome.
Speaker 2 00:13:38 Awesome. So you found an underserved market changing regulation. And that was what was one of your keys to your success, would you say?
Speaker 3 00:13:46 Absolutely. You know, it’s it’s like anything, you know, one of the, books that I’m a big fan of is Blue Ocean Strategy. And so one of the things they talk about is, you know, trying to not compete where others are and certainly not incumbents and tight markets, but find, you know, niches or, you know, areas of that, of that market where there isn’t competition and it’s either because of regulatory decided, because of some other, barrier to entry. In this case, it was regulatory, but then it was also banking and the banks weren’t supporting it.
Speaker 3 00:14:17 So I had two two of the tenants covered, and now it’s just about getting out into the market and executing, which that part I felt like we had and we have covered from our experience of in my 20 years previous.
Speaker 2 00:14:29 Well that’s awesome. Well, great. So that’s a great story. And you went to an underserved market and really, really, innovated there, which is awesome. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced along the journey?
Speaker 3 00:14:39 Well, the pandemic was certainly one.
Speaker 2 00:14:42 Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:43 The team is still remote, but it was remote. Then we had the plan of putting everyone in Raleigh, which is where the bancorp of this particular bank is. And the conversation I had with the CEO is, well, okay, we can move everyone to Raleigh, but they’re just going to sit in their apartment anyway. You’re never going to see them.
Speaker 2 00:14:58 Yeah, that was that was black and white. You just you’re not going in the office at that point now. It’s now it’s a choice.
Speaker 2 00:15:03 And so back then it was.
Speaker 3 00:15:04 Yeah. So the other part was the talent. Right. And so if we can hire the talent where they are and tell them they don’t have to move and get really high quality people and not disrupt their lives and actually not have to have them have a conversation with their other half to say, hey, we’re going to move, you know, from wherever we are to Raleigh, North Carolina, which isn’t a horrible place, certainly. But, you know, it is a transition.
Speaker 2 00:15:27 Move is a is a barrier, right?
Speaker 3 00:15:29 Absolutely. And so to continue on that. So the first one was the pandemic. I think we were able to navigate that. And then in 2022, the bankruptcy did unsolicited bid to be acquired by another bank, that I actually was one of the banks that I happen to approach with this idea back in 2009.
Speaker 2 00:15:46 At the beginning. Okay.
Speaker 3 00:15:47 Yeah. So And then they didn’t approach through me. They just found us through an investment bankers.
Speaker 3 00:15:51 Incredibly. I would say serendipitous, but it wasn’t positive for me, so I won’t say that. Use that word. And so I said, you know, guys, these are not these are not people that, understand, you know, our business would support it. And they said, no, no, no, it would be great. We’ll just, you know, we’ll have the acquisition and then we’ll figure it out.
Speaker 2 00:16:07 We’ll we’ll figure it out afterwards. That puts you at risk because like, listen, you know.
Speaker 3 00:16:10 How.
Speaker 2 00:16:10 This world works. That’s a potentially a death threat for your business, right? Because you don’t know if that partner.
Speaker 3 00:16:16 Regulatory.
Speaker 2 00:16:17 Is going to want to do it.
Speaker 3 00:16:18 Exactly. If the regulatory environment changes or your or your partner changes, which is in this case of what’s going to then you, you know, everything, gets put back to zero and you have to kind of figure it out again. And so we realized that and luckily I was able to convince the bank, to say, hey, look, you know, your equity is at jeopardy, your investments at jeopardy! Can we pull that out and maybe find another bank partner that is willing to, you know, buy you out, do whatever, and and is still going to continue, to support us because they see the opportunity.
Speaker 3 00:16:51 And so we went through a process at about 13 banks bid on us some some household names that everyone would know. I, you know, we had kissed a couple frogs to that process and then we ended up finding dart Bank. And dart Bank is a 100 year old. Michigan state chartered bank. And they were one of the first banks in Michigan to, openly bank and support the marijuana industry. And so we felt, okay, if you’re going to support the marijuana industry, then the CBD industry is a lower bar, both compliance and certainly regulatory. So, and honestly, the thing that really impressed me the most, Jillian. And I know this is such a trite thing to hear, but as I heard the CEO telling me about the, the, the culture and how they manage the bank and how they look at themselves as entrepreneurs, you know, living in a community bank, I said, okay, those are our people.
Speaker 2 00:17:41 And that resonated with you as an entrepreneur?
Speaker 3 00:17:44 Absolutely. Because if they don’t have that culture and they and they aren’t strong and following through on promises they make to their team and or the community they serve, then I’m at risk.
Speaker 3 00:17:57 There’s no doubt. Right? We’ll be we’ll be disintermediated because we’re not part of that community. They’re coming in, you know, as an acquisition. So but we close that in June of 2023. And in that process, I’ll tell you, that was the biggest challenge. Doing it was keeping the team focused and continuing to execute, because as you’re going through an acquisition you can’t have, you can’t lose your key people and you certainly can’t lose key customers and partners or else, you know, then the question becomes, you know, what am I buying?
Speaker 2 00:18:23 Sure.
Speaker 3 00:18:23 And that’s.
Speaker 2 00:18:24 Right. So you got to keep your team together. There’s uncertainty. You lost your key partner. How did you do that? And you’re and you’re not in the same office. So you know there that that creates even more challenge with creating trust and culture. Right.
Speaker 3 00:18:36 And I’ll tell you what’s even more interesting. Is there some of the team members on the on our team is small team that I’ve never met in person.
Speaker 3 00:18:42 I’ve only talked to them through video calls because again, during that time folks didn’t get together. And so what we did was, well, what I decided to do was be incredibly transparent and communicate regularly. So we had a weekly meeting where all we did was update on where we are. And so as I mentioned, we gave some frogs, we had some lice that fell out for various reasons. you know, one of which, just to be really transparent here was because my compensation package, they started trading it through the process to the point where I realized, okay, we’re not going to we’re not going to do well if this is how you’re handling.
Speaker 2 00:19:16 This, starting at the beginning. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:18 What what’s next? So we ended up, you know, blowing that up unfortunately, you know, really close to the closing deadline. And that was a challenge because I had a, you know really I had to tell them, hey, look, I, I, I killed the deal because, you know, they, they weren’t treating me fairly and, and, you know, that’s a moment where you don’t know how they’re going to react.
Speaker 3 00:19:37 But. Right. Because we were so consistent in our in our communication, they agreed. And they said, you know what? That’s not good.
Speaker 2 00:19:42 We don’t want your employees. So you’re sharing something as personal as your as that with your employees and being very transparent.
Speaker 3 00:19:49 Yeah. And that’s you know, it’s a risk. But I also thought, okay, listen, if this is going to work, we have to have trust. And if you don’t have trust, especially in a remote environment, you really have nothing. And I and I needed them because they, you know, they really they were the business, you know. Yes I lead it, but they’re the business. They drive it. They talk to the customers every day. And so that was the other thing. So so everyone came over with us and all our merchants moved over with us. Our partners moved over with us. And you can ask them today, they don’t even know when we switched because they didn’t feel that seamless.
Speaker 3 00:20:22 Yeah. You know, and it was only that seamless because the team was so dedicated to this. And that was the biggest thing I learned is that, okay, the most uncomfortable things are if they’re if they’re the right thing, it’s the thing you have to do. And by doing that, we’ve created a tremendous culture inside our group. And then once we came over to the bank, we realize they had a very similar culture. And so it became, an incredibly easy transition. Really easy.
Speaker 2 00:20:50 Awesome, awesome. Congratulations. And bringing your team through that transition and getting through. So that’s awesome. That’s some key challenges. So now now you’re on the other side of it. I’m sure you’ve got some blue horizon in front of you or some some excitement. Looking back over the four year journey, what would you do differently? Any any lessons for for others who are maybe in year 1 or 2?
Speaker 3 00:21:10 Yeah, I would say, gosh, the biggest thing I probably would do differently today if I was starting right now is I would embrace technology earlier and leverage it into the business sooner, even though, you know, and again, at that time, technology is very expensive, right? So you had to build everything from scratch.
Speaker 2 00:21:29 Yeah, it’s gotten cheaper and less over those four years.
Speaker 3 00:21:32 Absolutely. You know, I is definitely a game changer. it would would have been for us if it was available at the level it is today.
Speaker 2 00:21:39 Are you bringing it in now?
Speaker 3 00:21:41 We’re attempting to. So the interesting thing is, now that we’re part of a community bank. I needs data. And so the data you feed into it, it uses then, of course, depending on how you, you know, the how it’s structured, you you may be making some of that data public or being used in other models, which of course becomes a real challenge. It’s again, you know, personal information, especially coming from a community bank, is definitely.
Speaker 2 00:22:07 Not very careful. So you gotta be careful for so, you.
Speaker 3 00:22:10 Know, we’re.
Speaker 2 00:22:11 Navigating while.
Speaker 3 00:22:12 Navigating those challenges.
Speaker 2 00:22:13 Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:22:14 But we will. We’re absolutely, going to leverage it because there are a lot of repetitive tasks, tasks in payments and banking that could easily be automated and, and leverage AI to be more effective.
Speaker 3 00:22:26 And that’s, you know, ultimately, any small business which I still consider us a small business, even though we’re now part of a bank, has to look at how you can become more efficient, more effective. And technology is definitely the answer for us. So I would have I would leverage that earlier and that would allow us to grow faster, maybe had a a little bit better of a story to tell as we went to market because, you know, we’re only two years in. And so we didn’t have the, you know, the growth stats and the, you know, the you couldn’t draw the beautiful curves where everything goes up to the right just yet. And so, you know, there was a leap of faith by the bank to see us as a viable acquisition that has the ability to be self-sustaining, which I you know, we are now.
Speaker 2 00:23:10 Well, congratulations on that journey. You know, as you think back on that in your career and you, reflect on your lessons, you mentioned Blue Ocean strategy as a, as a, as a really good reference.
Speaker 2 00:23:20 You know what? What else do you, do you have other books or podcasts or things you listen to that, that you’d recommend to our audience?
Speaker 3 00:23:26 sure. Absolutely. You know, and this is, not a book I grew up with, but it’s an oldie and a goodie. how to Win Friends and Influence People is a, you know, really a, you know, great lesson and just how to how to meet people where they are and and and and just, you know, not not in a fake manner, but in really like engaging manner how to how to connect with folks. I love the how I built this podcast. It certainly helped me through, you know, our trials and tribulations in the first couple of years. And I love about it, is that, you know, you hear these stories of these household brands and you think, well, it was so easy for them to start. And then you hear these stories of how they, their near-death experiences, all this chaos, and you sit there and say, okay, you know what? They did it.
Speaker 3 00:24:08 We can do it. Let’s, you know, we can show some grit, we can be persistent and we’ll get there. And so that was that that was helpful. and there’s also just some fun stories. And then, you know, the AI challenge. And so we’ve been listening, a mutual friend of ours has introduced me to a handful of really great AI related podcasts that break it down to the average person, which I think I am. I’m certainly no data scientist, but I know that there are, you know, incremental gains to be had if we can leverage it Properly, and we just have to figure out what that is.
Speaker 2 00:24:42 Yeah. Of course. I mean, we’re all studying right now trying to figure out how we can leverage it. What’s the name of that podcast that the artificial intelligence show?
Speaker 3 00:24:48 Well, you know what? I’ll find it. I’m I’m blanking on it right now. Sorry.
Speaker 2 00:24:53 Awesome. Well, Tom, thanks so much for spending some time with us this morning and sharing your story.
Speaker 2 00:24:57 Congratulations. And, we wish you the best in the future.
Speaker 3 00:24:59 Well, we really appreciate you having us or having me, and being able to tell the West Town payment story as well as, you know, my personal story.
Speaker 2 00:25:06 That’s awesome. Tom. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3 00:25:08 Thanks, Julian. Take care.
Speaker 1 00:25:13 Thank you for listening to the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, would you please follow us and subscribe on your favorite podcast player and we’d be grateful if you recommend it to a friend. If you’d like more resources on how to become a better leader in business, we invite you to visit us at Growth elevated.com. We’ll be back next week with more insight from another great tech leader. Thank you.