Sarah Lehman and Gord Boyce on Scaling a Fast-Growing Company with EOS

Introduction to Growth Elevated & Guests (00:00:01)
Julian Castelli introduces the Growth Elevated Leadership Podcast, the community, and welcomes Sarah Lehman and Gord Boyce.

What Is EOS & Why It Matters (00:01:26)
Julian sets the stage for a discussion on the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS).

How Sarah & Gord Started Working Together (00:01:34)
Sarah and Gord explain how they first connected through Growth Elevated.

Sarah’s Early Exposure to EOS (00:01:49)
Sarah shares her experience reading Traction and attempting partial EOS implementation.

Zartico’s Origin & Rapid Growth (00:02:30)
Sarah explains Zartico’s founding, COVID-era launch, and explosive market penetration.

Defining the Zartico Way (00:02:59)
The challenges of scaling fast and rebuilding systems from fundamentals.

What Zartico Actually Does (00:03:51)
Sarah breaks down visitor intelligence and destination analytics.

Understanding Visitor Behavior (00:03:56)
Explaining “who came, where they came from, and how they spent.”

Why Traditional Attribution Falls Short (00:04:30)
Julian contrasts surveys and delayed insights with real-time analytics.

From Footfall to Spend Attribution (00:04:52)
How Zartico tracks visits, overnight stays, and spending behavior.

Google Analytics for the Real World (00:05:45)
Zartico positioned as offline economy analytics.

Preparing for the Next Growth Phase (00:06:06)
Why EOS became critical ahead of accelerated expansion.

What Is EOS & Who It’s For (00:06:35)
Gord explains EOS and the ideal company profile.

Gord’s Career & Hypergrowth Experience (00:07:02)
From Nokia to scaling a company from $14M to $120M.

Chaos of Rapid Scaling (00:08:11)
Lessons learned from hypergrowth without structure.

Why Gord Became an EOS Implementer (00:09:13)
The turning point after discovering Traction.

Why Zartico Needed EOS (00:09:43)
Sarah explains fragmented systems and accountability gaps.

Why a Facilitator Matters (00:10:59)
Why Sarah chose guided EOS instead of self-implementation.

Choosing the Right EOS Implementer (00:11:25)
Why Gord stood out: speed, experience, and directness.

Why DIY EOS Often Fails (00:12:47)
The underestimated work and emotional complexity of implementation.

CEO as Participant, Not Facilitator (00:14:25)
The strategic value of listening instead of running the room.

EOS Is Simple—but Not Easy (00:15:05)
Why speed, psychology, and order matter.

The Loneliness of the CEO Role (00:16:12)
Why external support is critical at the top.

Early Results from EOS (00:17:00)
Record product launches and sales performance.

Growing Despite Market Headwinds (00:17:42)
Why structure enabled momentum in a tough environment.

EOS as Executive Coaching (00:18:11)
Beyond process: strategic CEO support.

Extreme Visibility & KPIs (00:18:21)
Building clarity through rocks, scorecards, and metrics.

EOS as a RevOps Catalyst (00:19:08)
Why EOS forced operational investment and discipline.

Leadership Meetings Before vs After L10s (00:19:59)
How weekly cadence changed accountability.

Discipline & Meeting Pulse (00:20:38)
Gord explains the power of consistent rhythms.

Advice for CEOs Considering EOS (00:21:54)
Why it’s worth the investment.

CEO Blind Spots & the Five-Rock Rule (00:22:39)
Why focus beats ambition overload.

Why EOS Works at Scale (00:23:47)
Proven framework, faster execution, fewer distractions.

Final Takeaways & Resources (00:25:07)
Where to learn more about EOS and Zartico.

Julian Castelli (00:01.289)
Good morning. This is Julian Castelli. I’m the host of the Growth Elevated Leadership podcast, where each week I talk with inspirational entrepreneurs and leaders in the tech industry. Past guests have included CEOs and CXOs of great companies like Workfront, CHG Healthcare, Pathology Watch, InMoment, Canopy, the San Francisco 49ers, and many more. This episode is brought to you by Growth Elevated. We are a community of tech founders, CEOs, and CXOs.

who are committed to working together to share best practices and learnings in an effort to help all of us become better leaders. We do this through educational programs like this podcast and our blog, and of course, our annual Ski and Tech Summit, where we bring tech leaders from around the world to beautiful Park City, Utah, to enjoy skiing, networking, and business building. So if you enjoy any of those things, please check us out at growthelevated.com. Today, I’m very excited.

about this episode, we’re going to talk about the Entrepreneurial Operating System or EOS. We’re talking with Sarah Lehman, the CEO of Zartico Systems and professional EOS implementer, Gord Boyce. Zartico is a leader in destination analytics and together, Sarah and Gord have been on the journey to strengthen her leadership team and refine strategy using EOS. And they’ve been kind enough to join us to talk about it today. Welcome, Sarah. Welcome, Gord.

Gord Boyce (01:11.438)
Thank

Sarah Lehman (01:24.201)
Thank you very much.

Gord Boyce (01:24.334)
Thanks for having us.

Julian Castelli (01:26.588)
Hey guys, so exciting to talk about this. When did you guys get started, started working together?

Sarah Lehman (01:34.495)
We’ve been working together for just about a year, almost a year, correct?

Gord Boyce (01:38.39)
Yeah, we actually met at the, not quite a year, but was at the Growth Elevated Conference last year.

Julian Castelli (01:44.872)
Terrific, now sir, had you heard about EOS before?

Sarah Lehman (01:49.019)
Actually, I had heard about EOS. I had studied and read Traction almost six years ago, started to implement pieces of it. We started growing so fast that, you know, that went to the wayside. And then when I was at Growth Elevated seminar, I was reintroduced to it through Gord. So yes, I’ve been a student of it for some time, but never actually implemented it in full.

Julian Castelli (01:53.735)
Okay.

Julian Castelli (02:19.322)
Interesting. So tell us a little bit about your business and kind of where you were in your journey and why it seemed like it was worth kind of re re digging into that that topic.

Sarah Lehman (02:30.835)
Yeah, so Zartico is, was founded in 2019. We launched our product literally the week before the world shut down for COVID. We started growing during COVID and hit 60 % market penetration within two years. I mean, was phenomenal growth. And as many companies and founders know, growth amplifies a lot of chaos. Build systems haphazardly.

Julian Castelli (02:56.208)
Mm-hmm

Sarah Lehman (02:59.049)
We kept trying to define the Zartico way. And when it became obvious that those systems needed to be sort of broken down to the fundamentals, I just thought maybe we should go back to just the bare bone basics. And that’s what EOS does. And so we’re just shy of 40 employees. 2024 was a bit of a refounding is the way we’ve described 2024 into 2025.

And it was perfect timing for us to be thinking about a system. So Zartico is a visitor intelligence platform that serves destination and place-based marketers. And so we work with state entities called destination marketing organizations, ski resorts, attractions, hoteliers, and we deliver visitor intelligence and analytics solutions for them.

Julian Castelli (03:51.042)
Help us understand that. go a little deeper. What do you help them figure out?

Sarah Lehman (03:56.339)
We help them understand who is coming to their destination, where do they come from, and then how do they consume that destination. So did they come, did they stay, did they spend? And we just launched our Zartico media attribution product, and that is…

what are the most exciting next generation products we’ve evolved and that helps them understand is their marketing, their digital marketing actually effective in driving not just footfall, but did they come, did they stay and did they spend?

Julian Castelli (04:30.332)
And this is a very new technology, right? Because historically, they’d have to do surveys and things and find out like six to nine months later, right? Like they gave us the before and after. Before is Articose Tools and after is Articose Tools. If I’m running a hotel or a ski resort, give us the before and after and kind of what insights you’re able to get better.

Sarah Lehman (04:52.125)
Yes. So there has been attribution products that deliver on footfall, which is if someone saw an advertisement, did they come into the destination? But we take it all the way through the journey of did they not only come, which is the footfall, but did they stay, which is, they spend time overnight, which is a key attribute and KPI for destination marketers. And then did they spend, not only did they spend, but where did they spend? Because ultimately

our clients are looking to drive economic impact, not only in the… Well, we amass large data sets that include movement, spend and lodging. And so we bring those three together and look at the world through the lens of a place. So think offline economy and that integrated data model affords us the insights that I’m referring to.

Julian Castelli (05:23.919)
How can you tell where they spent?

Julian Castelli (05:45.34)
So it sounds like you’re almost providing the Google Analytics type of solution for the real world. Is that a way to describe it?

Sarah Lehman (05:51.133)
That’s right. So Google is the online economy and Zartico’s measuring the offline economy.

Julian Castelli (05:56.486)
Well, that’s huge. mean, that’s Google’s one of the most, the biggest businesses in the world by solving that problem. So if you can solve that problem for the real, real world economy, that’s going to be super exciting.

Sarah Lehman (06:06.395)
It’ll be very exciting. We just launched in January. And so when I was thinking about preparing for the next wave of accelerated growth, I wanted to make sure that we did it in a very scalable way. And that is what made me so attracted to working with Gord and then working through EOS.

Julian Castelli (06:24.572)
Terrific. Okay, Gord. So is Sarah’s company a typical company in terms of size and profile that becomes EOS curious? Tell us a little bit about EOS and then your background and then maybe weave in how Zartico is a fit.

Gord Boyce (06:35.32)
Gord Boyce (06:42.221)
Sure, absolutely Zartico is a fit. It’s for entrepreneurial companies that have between 10 and 250 employees is what we say. But what’s most important, I think, is being honest and open and vulnerable and be willing to understand that they don’t have all the answers and be willing to use a really a system or a recipe that has been tried and tested by thousands of other companies.

So to give you a little bit about my background, I’ve been in tech for about 30 years. I started my career on Canadian. So I started my career in Canada selling voiceover IP equipment in the late nineties. My company got sold to Nokia. They moved my family and I down to Chicago where I opened up a Midwest, the Midwest district for them. Ultimately, a couple of years later, moved down to Dallas and ended up running the Americas for one of their business, largest business units. So was a pretty big job.

And I realized that it wasn’t the right spot for me. So I moved on to a, startup called four scope technologies as employee number 62, and VP of sales and marketing. And, within a short period of time became CEO and took that company from 6 million to 120 million. And revenue over the course of about nine years, most of that growth, most of that growth came in the last four years and to dovetail on what Sarah was saying, the growth was.

Julian Castelli (08:02.225)
Wow.

Gord Boyce (08:11.735)
phenomenal, it was exhilarating, going from really, it was about 14 million to 120 million in four years. And that was just chaos. It was exhilarating and it was a lot of fun at times, but it was also chaos most of the time. And it wasn’t until a few years after that, when I left that company, that company went public in 2017 and is still around, a multi-billion dollar business. And…

Julian Castelli (08:18.586)
Wow.

Gord Boyce (08:40.951)
But it wasn’t until about 2019 that I ran into the book Traction, which Sarah alluded to. A friend of mine is an implementer he said, you should read this book. I think you would appreciate it. And I think you should consider becoming an implementer. And so I did, it took me a couple of years. At the time we were living in California, that company took me out to California. And when we decided to move to Salt Lake City two and a half years ago, that’s when I decided that this makes complete sense. I should become an EOS implementer and help companies like

as Artico in their growth phase.

Julian Castelli (09:13.988)
So that’s fantastic. So you’ve been in the seat as a CEO, as a head of sales and marketing, as an operator, you’ve seen the chaos and then you’ve aligned around a framework and a program that helps executives like Sarah manage the chaos and channel that into productive growth. That’s awesome. Sarah, us a little bit about the challenges. Okay, so you’ve got this great new product that you wanna bring to the world, but…

Gord Boyce (09:32.065)
Right, right, exactly.

Julian Castelli (09:43.309)
but you felt like you needed EOS. What were some of the reasons that you felt EOS could be helpful?

Sarah Lehman (09:48.895)
Well, our growth in the first few years was so fast and heavy that we pieced together a lot of systems, a lot of technical systems, a lot of human systems, a lot of manual systems. And, you know, I long thought one day we’re going to have this article way. Quite honestly, when I was thinking about the refounding of the company and getting ready for the next phase, I’m like, you know what, let’s just find something that we know is tried and true and works. Implement that.

And then we can tailor it the way we want to as we grow into this next phase.

Julian Castelli (10:23.705)
Cause it’s hard to create the Zarticle way or the whatever way when you don’t have a framework, right?

Sarah Lehman (10:28.777)
Correct. And so again, I had been long a student of traction and my lead investor had sent someone to work with us on rev ops. And she’s like, have you considered EOS? And I was like, you know what? It’s time. It’s time to reconsider bringing that back to my system. But this time I wanted to ensure that I did it with a facilitator because as a CEO, I want it to be

in the conversation, not running the conversation. And I wanted someone to hold me and my team accountable for doing the work, right? Because EOS is a framework, it’s a structure. And I wanted someone other than myself to hold the team accountable. And so I went on a journey to find a facilitator. I interviewed several facilitators. I ultimately selected Gord.

Julian Castelli (10:59.609)
Yeah.

Julian Castelli (11:14.659)
Yeah.

Sarah Lehman (11:25.375)
One, his response to me was nearly immediate. He’s like, let’s meet, let’s talk. Two, the fact that he was a CEO that has successfully scaled the business to me was so attractive. Cause I’m like, well, heck, if he can take something from 14 million, 120, you know, sign me up. But he’s been through all the seats. knows he’s been, you know, he’s lived his nine lives. And as CEO, you live nine lives. And so I…

Julian Castelli (11:49.122)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Sarah Lehman (11:52.701)
I wanted that he’s been a CRO, he’s been a CEO and he’s been, you know, at the brink of death multiple times. And so I just wanted someone with that gritty experience. And then two, he’s, you know, he’s a, a no bullshit kind of guy. Like he is straight down the path, holds you accountable and does not mince words when we are wasting time or spending our wheels, which again, I didn’t really have time for Kumbaya. I really wanted.

Gord Boyce (12:08.17)
hahahaha

Sarah Lehman (12:22.665)
brass tacks, let’s get it done, let’s get clear so that we can, you know, grow, continue to grow.

Julian Castelli (12:30.306)
That makes really great sense. But let me ask you a question. Were you considering trying to do it yourself at any time? Because I think a lot of entrepreneurs get the book and say, I could do this because it’s so well structured. so how did you evaluate that if that was anything you were considering?

Sarah Lehman (12:47.135)
I have tried in the past to do these kinds of things. I tried to implement traction on my own, to be honest with you.

Julian Castelli (12:58.636)
That’s the entrepreneurial way. I can figure this out. Let’s just have a few meetings, right?

Sarah Lehman (13:01.225)
more.

Julian Castelli (13:06.328)
Okay, so what did you learn? Because I’ve done the same thing and I think we got about halfway there. So we got some good things and I kind of, you know, I knew the program. I said, this makes sense. But we didn’t get fully through. It kind of petered out after a while. So what was your experience?

Sarah Lehman (13:21.343)
Well, my experience is that Gord brings the framework and holds us accountable to do the work. Like you can’t not do the work. Even when we were busy and something would come up, Gord’s like, fine, take an hour and deal with it. But then you come back and we’re going to do the work. I think you underestimate the work. Also facilitating difficult conversations, right? When you are sitting together as an executive team and you’re trying to determine accountabilities and…

the boxes within your organization of where you are today and where you want to go, those are sensitive conversations. And having an external party without names in those boxes lead those conversations just makes that process move faster.

Julian Castelli (13:49.56)
Yeah.

Julian Castelli (13:54.625)
Yeah.

Julian Castelli (14:05.068)
And it’d be hard if you were doing it, right? Because you like, tell me the difference being able to participate versus trying to lead and manage and organize all that stuff at the same time. What was the, what were you expecting? And did you get that by being able to be a participant and hear your team, you know, while Gord was facilitating, was that a big, was that perspective shift helpful?

Sarah Lehman (14:25.277)
Anytime the CEO can sit in the room and listen and participate versus having to always facilitate, right? It changes the dynamic and it changes how you get to think and how you get to engage and you get to things differently. And by the way, he doesn’t know the humans in the room. And so he’s focused on driving towards the accountabilities and the structure and the framework. And that’s what

Julian Castelli (14:38.039)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Lehman (14:50.333)
we needed as an organization. And now we’re not all the way implemented. We’re still working through our phases with Gord and we’ve got work to do, but having an external facilitator is what I would absolutely recommend.

Gord Boyce (15:05.164)
You can learn calculus at the library, but why would you do that? And I think it’s really about speed. So there’s nothing really all that difficult in the EOS methodology, but there’s a lot of information and it’s important that it’s followed in the right order. There’s a lot of psychology in there that’s deep behind it. And a professional implementer will just make it faster for you. You’ll get through the process faster.

Julian Castelli (15:09.783)
you

Gord Boyce (15:35.156)
I ask my clients to consider that this is a two year commitment to learning EOS, the EOS methodology, and then they often will graduate and sometimes they don’t. But they’ve learned all they need to learn after about two years about EOS and then they can do it on their own. But there’s a lot of information in there and a professional implementer will get you there quicker. Plus, you know, I’ve been a CEO before and oftentimes, as Sarah,

Julian Castelli (15:59.349)
Excellent.

Gord Boyce (16:04.317)
I will say this, I’m sure, you don’t have anyone to talk to. You can’t talk to your board, often times about really sensitive things and you can’t talk to your people and there’s no one else. So I’ve been there a couple of times.

Julian Castelli (16:12.905)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, that’s the whole inspiring theme for Growth Elevated is to try to create a pure community so you have some people because it is lonely at the top,

Gord Boyce (16:23.815)
It really is. there’s no one you can talk to. You cannot talk to your board about sensitive things. And you can’t talk to your leadership team about other sensitive things.

Julian Castelli (16:32.692)
Right. So having someone who you can chat with is hugely valuable. So that makes perfect sense. So Sarah, it’s been, you said you’re entering your second six months here, working on this. How has it been in terms of results so far? How has it added your organization, your comfort level with how things are going? Are you guys in the system and doing your L10s and all that sort of thing?

Sarah Lehman (17:00.551)
Yes. So we have implemented level 10 meetings. We have implemented rocks. So the whole company talking of rocks and pebbles. We have implemented the accountability chart. We’re taking another round at it because we found that we needed to go a layer deeper and like we’re going like step by step, every line of accountability within our organization to be crystal clear. So we’ve implemented those big things. What I, what we have experienced is

We have launched the most product we’ve launched in the history of the company in the last 90 days, and we’ve had the best sales results. So we’re growing in an environment where there’s some macro headwinds in my industry.

Julian Castelli (17:42.249)
Yeah, this is the, in this environment to be growing your fastest growth. That’s fantastic.

Sarah Lehman (17:46.717)
Yeah, so it is, I would say it’s effective. And what I get from Gord is not just EOS. So I’ve met with him multiple times outside of my EOS days to talk about CEO things, like Hesse’s mentioned, in terms of navigating this phase of the company. And so that has just been one-on-one executive coaching effectively that I’ve gotten as a bonus.

Julian Castelli (18:11.766)
That’s awesome. How is your role changed as a CEO when you have this structure? Any before and after thoughts?

Sarah Lehman (18:21.223)
well, that’s a great question. My role has changed because we now we’re focused on extreme visibility. That’s one thing that Gord has really helped us identify with EOS, right? You’ve got your rocks, how are you performing against your rocks? But then also what is, what are the things you need to know if you were sitting on an island and you could only have these things to know how your business is working? we’ve got to

Julian Castelli (18:44.671)
Are those your KPIs that you kind of use? Okay.

Sarah Lehman (18:47.485)
We’ve gotten really crystallized around those things. We needed to rebuild systems in order to get there, right? We needed to rebuild our HubSpot in order to be a true rev ops type system for us. But now it is our central nervous system.

Julian Castelli (18:59.539)
Was the EOS process a catalyst to go make that investment? Because I know you’re not alone if you have to rebuild your rev ops. think every 18 months you have to rebuild your rev ops, in my experience. But sometimes you push it off if you don’t have a catalyst. Was this a catalyst?

Gord Boyce (19:08.331)
You

Sarah Lehman (19:15.993)
I it was a confluence of things. think we would not have doubled down as hard on building out rev ops if we hadn’t had the EOS system running in parallel. So now the fact that our rev ops is 1000 % firing on all cylinders, we have the visibility that we need to in our business. And so that has fundamentally changed my role in terms of asking people how things are going.

Julian Castelli (19:28.34)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Lehman (19:45.405)
I get to look at measurement.

Julian Castelli (19:46.962)
Yeah, that makes all the difference when everyone can see the results.

Sarah Lehman (19:50.633)
Correct. And then you get to spend time on the why and the how versus the what. And so that has materially changed quite substantially.

Julian Castelli (19:54.504)
Mm-hmm.

Julian Castelli (19:59.208)
Talk about your leadership meetings, you know, before and after. Did the structure of the L10 meetings, is that something that you adopted and changed things?

Sarah Lehman (20:08.743)
Yes, well, the segues we introduced, right? So that was a really nice additive element to the L10s. I really liked the structure and the discipline related to L10 meetings. We have always, as an SLT, been meeting on a regular basis, so we had that. But we weren’t checking in with each other on our rocks. And so that discipline has really helped. And we weren’t checking in every single week on our KPIs. And so that has also been super helpful.

Julian Castelli (20:26.708)
Mm-hmm.

Julian Castelli (20:38.452)
Gord, what have you observed as changing as you’ve worked with Zarliko and Sarah?

Gord Boyce (20:38.634)
There’s level 10.

Gord Boyce (20:47.69)
what have I observed a lot more discipline. I think the, like many of my clients, that level 10 meeting that you were just talking about it, which is your weekly, management team meeting, leadership team meeting, where we follow the same agenda on the same day at the same time, really puts you in a cadence. We call it, your meeting pulse, and your 90 day world, but your meeting pulse where you have that, that pulse of a regularly scheduled meeting every week at the same time just gives.

management teams a cadence which they need to follow and they get into that rhythm.

Julian Castelli (21:19.527)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Very good. Great. Well, Sarah, what advice would you give to other CEOs who might be thinking about it? It’s annual planning season and Gord, you joined us and you helped us. We’re going to publish that podcast, I think this week, because it’s time to start thinking about annual planning. If you’re thinking about doing it yourself the way you’ve always done it versus maybe getting some help with an EOS implementer, what are your thoughts after having a year later after having tried it?

Sarah Lehman (21:54.825)
Well, I think my results speak for themselves in the sense that having an EOS facilitator made that process far more successful. And again, we’re still moving through the implementation from a company standpoint and an annual planning standpoint, but we do so much on our own as CEOs and entrepreneurs that this is one thing that I would say bring in someone as an expert to be your confidant and your support system.

And I think it’s worth the investment. There’s a lot of things we can invest in. This to me is a hands down worthy investment.

Julian Castelli (22:31.772)
So you feel like it’s giving you an ROI in terms of your organization and structure and your ability to execute that and you have the results to prove it.

Sarah Lehman (22:39.795)
I do, and if I were leading it as an example, I have huge ambition. And I think my first round of rocks for Q3 had like 12. And Gord’s like, no, you don’t get 12. No, you don’t get 12, Sarah. Even though as a CEO, I’m like, I want 12. He’s like, no, you get five. And so again, exactly. And so we as CEOs have our own blind spots.

Julian Castelli (22:59.443)
I recognize that I recognize that that challenge

Sarah Lehman (23:08.435)
Right? And so, you know, you get some at the board level and you get some with your senior leadership team, but if you can find someone right at your level to help you lead your organization and you have the resources, I think it’s just a no brainer. And EOS is just as simple. There’s no magic. It’s not rocket science. It literally is. It’s just structure and a framework and then you can build from there.

Julian Castelli (23:27.323)
No, but it’s good structure.

Julian Castelli (23:33.369)
Excellent. Gord, what do you think? If you’re thinking about CEOs out there, they’re wondering whether they should get some help this year and this be the year that they maybe bring in the full EOS system. What are your comments to those CEOs if they’re listening?

Gord Boyce (23:47.636)
Well, EOS is a proven methodology for running an entrepreneurial business. There’s literally hundreds of thousands of companies that, and if you just read online, you can read all the comments that have been more successful as a result of running the EOS framework. just, it’s all of the things that any small company should do to be successful packaged in a way that is not going to, if you’re sitting down to dinner, it’s not going to stop you.

We’re going to give you just enough food to make leave you satisfied, give you enough information and then get out of your way so you can get the job done. And it’s all the nuts and bolts and basics that any small company should be doing anyway. So whether you hire an implementer or not, you should be running on EOS. And if you’re considering running on EOS and you want results faster, you should hire a professional implementer to get you there faster. Because like I said, you can learn calculus at the library, but why would you do that?

Julian Castelli (24:46.735)
Yeah, I like that. you, if you can go faster and increase your chances of success and Sarah, I loved your points about being able to be a participant in it and be an active listener and have that facilitation. I think that’s a huge, huge benefit that you really miss out when you’re trying to manage, manage the whole thing.

Sarah Lehman (25:04.967)
Absolutely.

Julian Castelli (25:07.1)
Well, that’s terrific. So everyone out there, if you’re thinking about it, it’s planning season. EOS is a great structure. can read the book. But if you want to talk to Gord and talk to a professional implementer, can reach Gord, eosworldwide.com slash gord boys, gord-boys. Is that right, Gord? And if you want to learn more about Zartico and the Google for the real world economy.

Gord Boyce (25:26.442)
That’s it. That’s right. Yep. Thank you.

Julian Castelli (25:34.051)
You can learn more about Zartico at zartico.com, right? Well, thanks guys. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. think that was a great conversation.

Sarah Lehman (25:37.833)
Absolutely.

Sarah Lehman (25:42.845)
Thanks, Julien.

Gord Boyce (25:43.134)
Thanks Julian, thanks Sarah.